From a Submariner's Perspective is a weekly column, written in response to the letters sent in to advice columnist "Prudie" at Each week, The Submariner responds to the letter writers in a way that author, Emily Yoffe, probably can't (but perhaps would like to...). Each entry is headed with a link to the orginal questions and Yoffe's answers. Enjoy!

Also, if you have questions that you'd like answered by The Submariner, or anyone here at "The Fly", just write to me at and I'll forward to the appropriate party/parties for an answer (or you can write to them directly via the e-mail addresses on their pages)! Once the answers are published, I'll drop you a note letting you know.

Thursday, November 12, 2009

...on Plain Jane's Desire for a Man (orig. 11/012/09) <---Original Prudie Questions Can Be Found There

Hey there shippers! Holy smokes, it’s November! I mean, okay, I realize it was November last week, too, but I can really feel it and see this week. The cool, crisp air. The falling leaves. The kids building leaf canons out of cast off 50 gallon drums and gasoline. Ah, November and Darwin! Mixing since the beginning of time (or at least since the invention of gasoline) to bring us a more perfectly evolved race. But, that’s not our concern today, is it shippers? Nope. Today we’ve got letters! So, let’s get crackin’!

LW#1: Prudie, I’m plain. And men, well, you know, they’re all into hot chicks because they're all visually stimulated and don’t care about anything other than a hot rack and tight ass. So, I guess that leaves me out of the race. My friends say that I’m attractive and should get all gussied up and flirt (neither of which I’m comfortable with) and land me a man. But, since I know they’re lying about my looks, I just can’t bring myself to do it. Now, if I looked beautiful, you know, like Pam Anderson, with over-filled lips, boobs and butt, and barely two brain cells to rub together, I’d be more than happy to get out there. But, as I’m not Pam, I guess I’ll be a spinster. At least I’ve got my cats. What say you? Listen here, you fucking idiot. How dare you make blanket statements about guys as if we’re just brainless, thoughtless, walking penises, always looking for the next hot lay? So, women have a lock on desiring romance and chemistry and intelligence and wit, do they? Listen, if you have something, anything, to offer, there are men out there who will find you attractive. Would you wrap a diamond ring in a gawdy box with shiny wrapping paper and bows and ribbons and one of those cards that plays “Suwannee River” when you open it, or would you simply allow the ring’s class to speak for itself. Your friends are idiots and likely need to be wrapped in mylar and bows. You want a mindless prick? Follow their advice. You want someone who gives a shit about you? Learn to be comfortable in your own skin, in your own comfort zone, and quit blaming men’s supposed desire for a pretty face for your marital status. Some many of us actually value intelligence and wit and humor and class above vacuous playthings. And if that’s what you want, we’re worth looking for.  But, truth is, given what you've told us, I don't know if I'd want you to find me.

LW#2: Since getting married, my husband and I have attended Thanksgiving at his sister’s house with the rest of his family. Prudie, it’s horrible there. She runs the place like some prison camp! The kids are relegated to a single room to play in, dinner is eaten precisely at fourteen hundred hours, and, even before we all sit down to eat, my SIL is packing up the food! I’m through with this Gestapo treatment and want to do Thanksgiving like it should be done, in a relaxing way, valuing family unity and being welcoming rather than pretending we’re contestants on “The Thanksgiving Boot Camp Show”. What should I do? Okay, here’s the thing. Prudie has the right idea. You need to host your own soirée. But, she’s way wrong on execution! It’s too late this year to throw your own, alternative party. That’s just going to piss off everyone and cause much strife. You don’t have to attend your SIL’s this year if it’s just going to stress you out (feign sickness), but don’t throw a competing party this year at this late date. That’s just shitty. Instead, make sure that your husband is 100% behind you (because, without his support in this, you’re sunk and would be better off ordering out for Chinese food). Tell SIL that next year, you are going to host, and, too, that you’re going to host each alternating year. Period. From there, do just like Prudie said. Don’t back down, don’t take no for an answer, and, if SIL doesn’t show up, so be it. Maybe she can learn from you how Thanksgiving is supposed to be celebrated? P.S. As for how often you see hubby’s family members? That’s irrelevant and you need to drop it from your argument. Family is family, and Thanksgiving is Thanksgiving, no matter how often or infrequently you see them.

LW#3: Prudie, I work for a great dentist. Actually, he’s positively dreamy! His wife, though? She’s a flaming bitch. I hate her. Truly. Worse still is the fact that she’s the office manager and is committing insurance fraud by overcharging our customers’ insurance companies. I know good and well that she’s doing it and, too, that the dentist doesn’t know it’s going on. At all. He’s the model for honor and righteousness and dignity. If I can get the wife arrested without affecting the husband’s career or our practice, I can slide right into the wife’s slot (professionally and personally). What should I do? Okay, I may have been a bit unfair about motive there, but, come on! Where’s the conflict? If you value your job, if you need it to make ends meet in this tough economy, if your kids will starve or your mortgage will go unpaid, you stay quiet. Unless you’re required to commit the fraud yourself (which you should not do, obviously), you have little choice. But, too, you must start looking for another job. Today. As soon as you find a place to go to, then send the detailed, anonymous letter to the authorities that Prudie suggests. That may seem morally bankrupt and all, protecting your pay check, but I’m a realist and believe that so long as you’re not committing the fraud yourself, and so long as you’re honestly and sincerely looking for work, you’re morally okay. Now, if you don’t have to have the job to get by? Then write that letter today. What wifey is doing is wrong, and you know it. As for your aspirations to take her place? Forget them. Your dreamy dentist knows exactly what’s going on. And he encourages it.

LW#4: Prudie, I recently attended a funeral with my husband. A man there fainted, and, being a nurse, I went to help him. The man has a medical condition, so 911 was called. We got the man taken care of and went on with the funeral. On the way home, my husband asked me about the man who’d fainted. I started telling him about the man, but then went on to talk in great detail about the funeral (which, as I said, my husband attended, too). Amazingly, though, even though he’d been there and heard and seen everything I was telling him with his own ears and eyes, he got disinterested and started listening to the World Series! I was shocked and appalled and can’t believe how rude he was. How can I tell him how hurt I am by his insensitivity? Well, you can start by using your words in the future to sum.mar.ize. And, too, by noticing if there’s a game on if you decide to not summarize. You may watch the Oscars every year with rapt attention, but you don’t give a good god damn about sports, right? Well, he’s the same, only he doesn’t give a shit about the Oscars. So, out of respect, when one of you is into a big event (like the World Series), the other might want to use discretion about what they really need. Rehashing a funeral that your husband actually attended himself, while there's a World Series game going on, is a lose-lose situation. He was genuinely interested in what you did to help the man who’d fainted. He listened to those details with rapt attention, I assure you. He even asked you about it, and he was proud of you for your actions (and I’ll bet he showed it). That’s not something he could fully understand just by being there and he listened to you explain what had happened, what you did, and why. But pouring your heart out, rehashing the eulogy and the flowers and what the widow was wearing and the priest’s pronunciation of “chalice” and the entire funeral that your husband just attended, right there with you?! Come on. Give the guy a break. Unless, of course, you want a rehash of the early Sunday game while you’re watching the Oscars. I’m not saying your husband should be given a free pass to not listen to you. I’m saying that no human (man, woman or child) can be expected to listen all the time to everything. As they say, choose your battles.

Well, shippers, I guess that’s it! If we can get through November and December with all of our fingers and toes intact, who knows what wonder and happiness the New Year and January will bring? I’m looking forward to it all! I do love the holidays (and the leaf canons). Hang in there shippers, keep your dive-to-surface ratio steady at one, and, as always, fair winds and following seas to ya!


  1. Smagboy, well said as usual. You have an uncanny way of seeing through to the subtext of these letters. My only concern for LW3 is that now that she has put her suspicions in writing - on traceable, date-stamped email, no less - she needs to protect herself by acting sooner rather than later. Once the investigation starts, computer records may be searched and if auditors find that she knew about the fraud long before she reported it, she may bear some of the consequences. BTW, I totally agree with you on her possible motives here - I got that vibe from reading the letter as well.

  2. Awesome as usual, Smaggy! Your sentiments for 3&4 are dead on! I, too, was thinking that if I had to listen to that woman prattle on and on about a funeral I just attended I'd tune her out just as much, and I don't even like hockey! ;)

  3. Great advice Smags! Tuning out saved many a marriage.... and the good thing is that you can tell the whole story again and again and the other person will think it's brand new each time!

    I've never heard of a leaf canon. Did I miss out on one of the exciting part of childhood?

  4. My partner Rich (who isn't!) also has never heard of a leaf canon. I told him I think the kids fill a drum with leaves and pour gazoline on them and then light it. He was pretty excited about it. He wants to see a video. I suspect he's thinking of trying it... thanks a lot, Smags!

  5. So what do you do when you have the complete opposite problem as #4? I let my hubby watch his games in peace. He watches EVERYTHING. Even european sports. I don't talk much when there aren't sports on. I have learned that he won't listen to me if there were flys on the wall lining up into some kind of formation. So I talk during commercials or leave him alone. But, hubby will talk his ass of to me when I am watching a show that I like. (I now stick my hand in his face and send him off.) He's like a bitch. He talks his ass off about EVERYTHING. (And then the guy at the office said this, and he was wearing that, and we all stopped to look at that girls boobs....) He wouldn't even listen to me when I told him to stop putting the baby in spots she can fall from. He would leave her on the changing table or the edge of the couch and walk off. I guess my main point (besides rambling and bitching) is that I don't buy into the sterotyped bullshit that all women talk too much and men just want them to shut up. Sometimes it's the opposite like in my case. I just want my husband to shut the fuck up and go away sometimes. I guess that's what pissed me off so much about LW4. She is dumb because she hasn't figured out the whole men and sports thing and the world series is a big deal. (And it was fucking sweet living in Philly the day after it was over!! Ha ha I'm evil!) For her to not get that shows on some level she doesn't respect what is important to him. But for me, when the tables are turned, I don't get the same respect from my hubby. That pisses me off.

  6. Ahoy, diving buddy!

    Chinese food for Thanksgiving sounds AWESOME! Remember the duck from "A Christmas Story"? Fa-ra-ra-ra-raaaa ra-ra-ra-rah! Classic!

    If #4 is a trained nurse and feels the need to "pour her heart out" about "helping strangers" each time she does it, and expecting her husband's rapt attention each time no matter the circumstance ~ this is going to be a very bumpy marriage.

    Key words ~ "I don't see the value..." (in something he was interested in) = him finding someone who does.

    Right on target as always, Smag! ;)

  7. Thank you, Amy. Let's hope she used a library computer and a ghost e-mail account to send that letter to Prudie! :-)

    Hey Seoul! I like your hockey joke. You know good and darn well that I was talking about soccer! ;-)

    Kati, please, please, please tell Rich to not listen to me! Ever, actually! I'm not safe. :-) Anything to do with gasoline and fire is absolutely insane and should never be tried. Of that, I'm dead serious. That said, if he *does* try it, I strongly suggest a remote fuse mechanism. He can use a simple rocket igniter, electric (just solder on some alligator clips) wire and a switch. Not that I'd know from experience or anything. Just sayin'.

  8. Christina, I hope that you see from my answer that I know full well that this goes both ways. That men are just as often the chatterboxes. As to your question, what can you do? It's a tough thing and it's about respect. In the case of the LW, it didn't sound like a constant that hubby tuned her out. With you, it does. :-( And that speaks to his lack of respect or his utter cluelessness. Has your hubby ever seen "The Break Up"? Let him, and then ask if he'd let go of Jennifer Aniston if he had a shot at her? Then tell him that's exactly what he's doing. Sounds like it to me, anyway. (Yes, I know, the movie is pretty lame, but, you know, it's the best I could do on short notice). ;-)

  9. Hey there Diving Buddy! You know that I do so love to see you swimming by. As does the crew. They're always asking me when you'll next visit, and it saddens me that they haven't figure out that Thursdays are mail day. Oh well. Rocket scientists, they ain't. But they're good lads, none-the-less.

    Yepper, Nurse Drama Girl went on even too long for me. And I was vaguely interested. Her loss. :-(

  10. Smaggie....YOU'RE FUNNY TODAY!

    And I felt the need to yell that at you this fine day!

    Leaf Cannon's...must be a guy thing they don't speak of much as I've never heard about this either. What part of the country do you live in? I'm thinking on the West Coast we may be clueless on this fun fall event. The soldering, and needing smelly gasoline left me out of trying this, too much work, now if you were rocketing skyward watermelon's dressed up as Mr & Mrs Potato heads I'd be there.

    LW1 Very odd. In my family the women know men are like busses, you miss one, another will be along in 10 minutes and the men in our family have some similar thought process as well. How did this letter writer not get this information? I thought Prudie messed this one up rather poorly. I believe LW has no interest in...catching a man or she would have already. There truly is someone for everyone regardless of looks. Bet you the LW has the personality of a blank piece of paper, oops I mean, plain paper! She maybe plain looking but it's really her attitude...even if she dresses frumpy her little light would shine through if she had any brightness to begin with.

    LW2 Being from the same gender I feel the hosting SIL is sick of the whole bunch coming to her house year after year and would be delighted if someone else had the event this year, short notice or not, two weeks is enough time if they live in the same city. If the SIL is cleaning up behind the last person in the buffet line she runs a tight ship and can easily move the masses down the road a mile or 20 miles if that. She is showing the symptoms of being burned out on the whole occasion. How rude to hand back the food that was brought, another telling behavior. Buh-bye, thanks for stopping in. No matter how large the crowd, holiday events are a hell of a lot of work beginning days/weeks prior, it's a lot of labor for one person, one controlling SIL, who I would guess stopped enjoying the day many years ago.

    LW4 What do they say, men speak about 500 words a day compared to a woman's 1500? And I am sure there are many differences in who in a couple speaks the most. The LW needs to let this one go, unless she's willing to say "Go Pedro, run Pedro run" or whatever sport saying is acceptable. I'm clueless as my household it's all about the dirt bike then it's all about the reality show, an exchange easy to figure out once you understand (and state) each other's needs.

    Christina, all those sports shows your hubby watches might be all the more endearing to him if he shared that time with his baby in his lap. Quality time. Sounds like he needs a dose of reality regarding leaving his baby/your baby where a fall can occur leaving a lasting disability, share that thought with him repeatedly until he gets it. It is important he gets it, today. My thoughts are with you.
    I say "his" baby because it sounds like he needs to be reminded of this, that is a lot of TV time for a man with a baby. I am also a woman who bought a longer cable for her headphones to reach the TV when people won't shut up, works every time. How rude of me, do forgive.

    Happy trails...

  11. Hey Debbie! :-) I'm glad you stopped by--I sincerely enjoy it! And, as for leaf canons, though I couldn't find a video of one in action, this video should enlighten you and Kati. It's the same principle, but, because you use gas under the leaves, you can't use a flair--way too dangerous. Anyway, take a look:

    Now, the leaves don't burn as clean as the sawdust (because they aren't as fine), but they'll still give a good boom and send flaming leaf bits all over the yard, which, if not wet and manned with a hose, is a dangerous thing. Seriously kids, don't try this at home if you can't figure out how to be FAR away from the drum and how to put out the small fires you're bound to start. Like I said, Darwin and gasoline. ;-)

    Also, Debbie, I wonder if you're a fan of the blues? The 'men are like buses' line is reminiscent of a line from "Men Are Just Like Streetcars" originally performed by Mavis Staples back in the early 40s, I think. Sit your honey on your lap and listen to that kind of music and the whole world disappears in those voices. Good stuff.

  12. I disagree about the dental assistant. If she knows, for a fact, that this is happening and it continues, then she is an accessory after the fact and can be prosecuted. Let the dentist know that you will be reporting it. This gives him a chance to make restitution. Document that you gave him this notice, so he doesn't try to pin the blame on you.

    If they fire her (him?) for this, she's entitled to unemployment much sooner, and could probably sue for damages. Not that I would.

  13. Hey CoolOne! Listen, I'm not a law expert (although our local mermaid is), but, if this woman doesn't have any reason to know what she knows (it sounds like she found out entirely by accident), it seems to me that she could easily, and truthfully, say that insurance records are not her job and that she doesn't work with the billing. Being charged as accessory without actually doing anything? Doesn't sound right to me, but, as I say, I'll defer to those with more knowledge than me. I certainly don't want to advise illegal stuff. :-)

  14. Smag, good blog as usual. Plain Jane is probably not plain at all. She only thinks she's plain and thinks men don't look at her. I think many women pressure themselves a bit too much about looking beautiful without realizing their true beauty. I'm guilty of it too. We don't think men notice, but they do! I often tell my beau that men don't notice me, but when they ask him if I'm his, that's when I realize that he's lucky to have me! :-D

    It doesn't hurt to fan the flames a little though. Dressing nice does make a difference.

  15. Hey Debbie, my hubby's friend came over and said something like this, "Yo man babies can fall like a foot and die man." And that was the begining of the supper parinoid faze where everything was going to kill her! Three years later, she doesn't stand still for a minute. But, I'm just tired of seeing all these letters (I troll the internet way too much) about the sterotypical man/woman relationship things. I think it only serves to cement differences in our heads that we made up to begin with.
    LW# 1 just need to look around at all the ugly, fat, stupid people that are getting married every day. I also noticed that the biggest douch bags are into porn star looking women. Where is she trying to meet people, if she is trying? Maybe she needs to try a new place.

  16. Quite an off-the-wall batch of letters this week! Emo nurses, judgmental Janes, Boot camp holiday meals. We need another letter about the woes of having a massive schlong for it to be a perfect batch. Or one asking Prudie how to make leaf cannons. She'd pretend never to have made one, but we'd know. We'd know.

    LW1 - As a non-hottie, I can relate, except for the "having any interest whatsoever in dating" part. Or "dressing up" or getting made up. Maybe for that reason, I didn't catch the condemnation of all men that Smag did. Well played, sir. Now I can sense the misanthropy behind it.

    My guilty secret, though, is that I *am* a little curious about what it's like to be hit on. Not curious enough to do anything about it, though.

    LW4 - this one read like a joke. I mean, it had a punchline, right? "Blah blah blah I saved a man! wah WAH wah wah a funeral! how sad! hubza bubza..." "Yes, dear. GO, BRADY!!"

    But then she went past the punchline and started bitching about her feeeeeliiiiings. She has no sense of comedic timing.

  17. Smags, you're the best!

    I miss you from my workday reading. My workplace doesn't let me get here--instead of "access denied", they give me an innocent-looking "can't find that page" screen, so I was thinking that the entire site was down. Glad to find that it's not.

    And for what it's worth, I wearied of hosting Thanksgiving a few years ago. I was hoping that one or the other of my many guests would step into the breach--I'd LOVE for someone to invite me and the rest of the family for the festive meal. Hasn't happened yet!

  18. Smagboy1,
    Spot on! I really wish these people who ask for Prudie's advice actually read yours. Someone needs to give it to them straight, and Prudie can sometimes be lame.
    Just a thought... have you ever read Prudie's onlne chat every Monday? More fodder for your wise words...

  19. By the way, Pedro plays for Phillies, so LW4's hubby was actually listening to NLCS, or maybe the World Series. You must have been thinking of Pedro's time with the Red Sox.

  20. Greetings Nachtmusik! You're right, I'll bet your boyfriend is lucky to have you (who wouldn't want a gorgeous violinists as their boy/girlfriend?)! And yes, dressing nice (for oneself and for others) can build confidence and make a difference, but, if someone isn't comfortable with certain clothes/styles, one shouldn't wear them, imho. In the end, it's what's on the inside is what's most important. :-)

    Hey herdthinner! I'm so glad you made it this week, and, I'll bet that you're far more attractive than you give yourself credit for as well! I can tell already, actually, just based on your most excellent personality! I love your "Emo Nurse" title! May I use that in retitling this blog entry? Seriously!

    Hey fanshawe. I'm sorry that "The Fly" isn't visible to you at work. I wish the new moderator on The Fray wasn't so heavy handed, but, I do hope that it continues to be worth the trip. :-) Thank you for reading! Also, after this year, I'd suggest that you announce that this was your last big Thanksgiving blowout for awhile and that you hope to be able to continue the tradition at someone else's place next year. I'm sure you'll have some takers. :-)

  21. Hey Anonymous. I have read the Monday column, but, it's just too much to write about here. If I was more dedicated, perhaps, but, the submarine does takes a lot of effort to maintain, don't'cha know. ;-)

    D'oh! I can't believe I blew it on the ALCS thing! Yes, my mind is still back a few years as I'm probably older than I want to admit. I'll change it to World Series (which honestly is what I meant, as I really, honestly, did know that Pedro is a Philly now. Honest!). Makes the advice even more poignant, too, yes?

  22. I'm not quite sure I'm seeing it in the comments, so I'll throw out there that I read LW1 as in serious need of some therapy.

    I don't like to advise that willy-nilly, but there's something so self-defeating in her tone, and frankly a deep lack of self-esteem. There's no light side to her letter, and she doesn't say "I'm happy with who I am" anywhere.

    Her friends are likely trying to stop the complaining and "woe-is-me" attitude, which gets very tiring to listen to - hey, I'm already tired of being around her just from reading the letter!

    Listen, most people don't just have a spouse fall in their laps; they have to go out there, be confident and be themselves, and somehow people manage to hook up. I don't know what kind of trauma this chick went through - serious mommy issues? - but it sounds like she's depressed or just really screwed up, and either way it points to professionals (Prudie doesn't count).

  23. And Christina, I'm sorry about your situation - it sounds like you really need to get in front of the TV and say, "If you don't start showing up in this marriage then I won't either - one of us will move out."

    Because I just don't know how else someone so checked out will notice, but it seems to speak very loudly that something's wrong and it's not just an obsession with sports (leaving the baby in dangerous situations is very bad). Perhaps he's got ADD? I don't know...

    But I'm sorry to hear about it - I hope it changes.

  24. Smaggie, again you're funny!

    A woman with gasoline and a flair and she is advised is a poor combination, lol, I can see it now! Poof! No hair cut needed for over a year! How about them eyebrows!

    Oh, Smaggie, announcing you're done with the huge Thanksgiving blowout and wishing for an invitation for the next year's tradition elsewhere will not have women's hands in the air volunteering from my experience. Didn't you know this is the one time we sit on our little hands to avoid making this mistake that takes years and years to get out of? Try this on Thanksgiving and watch the women, some may duck under their napkins, or disappear from view for a moment while feigning dropping their fork, some will need to dash to check on the kids, some will fill their mouths so talking is out, some will freeze in place. Should be a riot! Let me know your results. I bet you would need to burn the turkey, pose a fly on the cranberry sauce, have golf ball size lumps in the gravy and serve green Jello with (ugh) with Pineapple and Marshmallow's...(super UGH) on paper plates to get one hand to raise!

    Can you tell I've had my share of interesting Thanksgiving meals? One year my MIL announced how great the turkey tasted, she had been worried as it was a sale turkey from the prior year and the small bit of freezer burn had her concerned...but not the Pecan Pie, after a year it looked fine! Then as I reached for the salad dressing my brother and sister in law across the table began to snicker, upon checking the expiration date, I then knew what was so funny, expired beyond belief. And this kind woman knew every version of making that nasty green Jello into some delightful concoction, scary, very scary. Beware of Depression Era women who raised large families, they have huge pantries! In a few short years she went from the nice China to Melamac to paper plates, hmmm, was she burned out, yep, pretty sure of it, so then began my turn, then my laughing SIL took her turn a few years later. What was my trick you ask, for my SIL to take her turn after years of her not budging? We love Oyster Stuffing, everyone loves it but one important person, her husband! After a couple years of no stuffing he was ready to eat at home. Buh bye. Bad Debbie, do forgive. I used to cater to everyone's special food needs, I knew I'd develope an eye tick if I kept it up and when my niece dated a fellow who would not eat onions I was done. Overdone.

    Happy trails everyone, I'm off to celebrate my birthday and be the best MOG I can be on this fair Friday the 13th! Yahoo! My lucky day as always!

    Smaggie, smooth sailing to you!
    PS, the dreaded moderator won't let me join in for whatever reason so I'll disappear should everyone dash back to The Fray. For some this may be good news, buh bye Debbie.

  25. "...Listen here, you fucking idiot..."

    Oh, Smaggy. SmaggySmaggySmaggy. Redefining the word "Gentleman", one soft touch at a time! This is sheer brilliance, my friend.Of course, you KNOW I would approve...

  26. Hey Smag! First off, I was away from my computer at conferences, but I wanted to say Happy belated Veterans Day!

    I'm a bit surprised at how you read LW #1. Maybe b/c I can relate a bit to her experiences, but I didn't find her whiny or hateful toward men. I think she just doesn't know what to do with herself. It's hard too because it does take 2, she has to find men who will be receptive.

    Good call on the wife at the funeral. I forgot re her rehashing the funeral he'd just been to as well.

  27. AAAAAUGH!! Razzing frazzin blogspot "signin error" shit!!

    I hope that I've properly conveyed my dismay about blogspot's failure to post my response of mere minutes ago. I'll see if I can reconstruct it:

    Ah, Smag m'boy, it doesn't matter if I'm attractive to others or not; hooking up with someone is simply not on my To-Do list. Friendship is not the same as Hooking Up; I'm not averse to Friendship, of course. But thanks for the kind words!

    I've hosted gatherings before, including one T-giving at my teeny house. I like cooking, so that was a blast, but these days I'm an herbivore and won't buy and prepare a turkey (or pig or chicken or cow or...). This bums out most people. Fortunately my family is not of the "everyone must eat at ONE PLACE for T-giving" variety. We just do our own thing for holidays! It's quite non-stressful, I must say.

    I've given it some thought and have decided that LW4 is backshit crazy, in addition to having awful comedic timing.

    All right, FINE. I'll downgrade her to hopelessly clueless. Happy??

  28. Awww... thanks. :-D *blush*

    I don't know about LW4, but I think her hubby probably doesn't want to discuss what he has already seen.

    I don't seem to have a problem talking to my man. Even if he's having a shitty day and doesn't want to talk about it, I could still get him to talk to me. In fact, he talks more than me sometimes. Not every men are the big silent type.

  29. Hey Nagatuki! Yepper, LW#1 does need some therapy, I think. She's written in to The Fray, or someone claiming to be her, and I agree. She's all over the place with her reasons for wanting to know if she looks good or not. Sigh.

    Greetings Debbie! No worries on us moving back to 'The Fray'--we're moderated too toughly there, and I wouldn't want to say goodbye! As for the Thanksgiving challenge, I'll trust you, but, I guess my suggestion was basically that you not do it, regardless of if anyone else volunteers! :-)

  30. Jennifer, my specific beef with LW#1 was that she came off as if men are only driven by looks. She even said something like "as we all know, men are visually-driven". And yes, I did take exception to that. I mean, we all, men and women, appreciate a pretty body, but, neither gender is so shallow as to overlook wit, intelligence, romance... So, please understand, I wasn't so much being mean as trying to get her to recognize the gross stereotype in which she was engaging. ;-)

  31. herdthinner, your family sounds pretty cool, actually. And please know that I wasn't suggesting that you should be only interested in hooking up! I hope that I didn't insinuate that! :-)

    Nachtmusik said "Not every men are the big silent type". Thank you, Nachtmusik! My point exactly! :-)

    So, guys, I'm thinking of adding a video response to one letter each week. I guess I'd have to post a link here to youtube. What say you? Worth it, or, would you just read and not worry about the video? Voting is open now! :-)

  32. I just got a mental image of a guy dangling a steak over a pack of hungry pit bulls and crooning "You want it? You want it? Huh? Huh?" ;)

  33. YES to the video!


  34. What, like Prudie's one video a week that Fraysters rarely comment on?

    OK. But no cheesy animation or voiceovers, please!

  35. Hey Guys! Well, I'm going to give it a shot. I haven't decided if I'll just do a video response to one of the letters, or a video response to the letter that Prudie does a video to, or just what. But, herdthinner, the whole *point* of doing this was going to be the cheesy animation and voiceovers! ;-) we'll see how it goes... Thanks!

  36. I pity both LW 2 and her SIL. It's sad that what should be a joyful time has become the cause of so much tension.

    I'd give almost anything if I had enough money to be with my extended family at Thanksgiving! I live a 3-day drive from everyone and air fare from the middle of nowhere is too high for me to make more than one trip a year. Because I have to take my vacation during the summer down-time at my office that's when I go. Even then I usually miss at least half the family because of their schedules.

    When we lived nearby Thanksgiving was at my sister's home and Christmas was at mine. Everyone pitched in to cook, set up and clean. We laughed and, yes, argued but it was always a good time. Here's my story of one of the best Thanksgivings:

    We were always fairly traditional in that the women hung out together cooking, setting up tables, etc., while the men stayed out of the way. After the meal everyone helped clear tables but the women did the dishes and the rest of the cleaning up. This Thanksgiving started out the same and we all enjoyed it. After the meal, though, my sister announced that we were going to draw "clean-up duties" out of a hat. When she walked around the tables with the hat, all us women had our duties slips already hidden in our hands so the men were the only ones who were really drawing. Our slips read "watch the game" and "take a nap" while the slips in the hat said things like "clear the table", "wash pots and pans" and "put away food". It didn't take long for the guys to catch on but they laughed and did it all! It's been many years since then but we all still laugh about it.

    My husband and I do the full feast every year and enjoy ourselves very much but I really miss having the 30+ gang around! I think it would be even more fun now that there are lots of great nieces and nephews popping out.

  37. Hey Becky, love the tricky game you pulled out of your hat! Sounds like a great group of women to think of such a great trick! The best part was the men did the chores and I bet in double time so as not to miss any football!

    Smaggie, I'll be watching for a video filled with cheesy bits. I wondered why no one gave one whit about Prudie's video letter's enough to post a reply...still wondering! Why? How come? Wh'aaaaaaaaat?

    Smaggie, do you think you could possibly do a video while wearing a nose ring? The kind with the silver balls on each end sticking out of the end of your nose? Please? Hmmm? Maybe?

    I ask because I need to practice getting used to looking at it without the need for an insurmountable amount of comments flowing forth from my mouth. I'm open minded and do fairly well understanding and accepting people's needs to be different, variety and all's just that my stunning 20 year old neice now has silver balls hanging out of her nose. She brought me flower's for my birthday to show me her latest fashion statement knowing she needed to break this news before Thanksgiving dinner or my gravy would be lumpy from the shock, and the rolls, definately left in the oven to burn.

    I love her, she is a great person. I simply keep wondering what employer will pay her well and in what industry when she graduates college? Seems she eliminated the top tier with her nose ring? Next she's wishing for some rhinestones along her collar bone....future Thanksgiving's are going to be a riot...I have her entire wish list of future piercing's and tatoo's!

    You think I need to write Prudie? ;0)