From a Submariner's Perspective is a weekly column, written in response to the letters sent in to advice columnist "Prudie" at Each week, The Submariner responds to the letter writers in a way that author, Emily Yoffe, probably can't (but perhaps would like to...). Each entry is headed with a link to the orginal questions and Yoffe's answers. Enjoy!

Also, if you have questions that you'd like answered by The Submariner, or anyone here at "The Fly", just write to me at and I'll forward to the appropriate party/parties for an answer (or you can write to them directly via the e-mail addresses on their pages)! Once the answers are published, I'll drop you a note letting you know.

Thursday, February 11, 2010

...on Alzheimer's Rules for Cheating  (02/11/10) <--- Original Prudie Letters Can Be Found There

Hey there shippers, and greetings to you all! How in the hell are you on this fine, fine Prudie Day? I hope that you’re well. I hope that life is treating you like a 1500 thread count bed set with a Siberian White Goose down comforter, lined in silk charmeuse. We could certainly do worse, yes? In the meantime, as we wait for those luxuries, let’s discuss these letters, shall we?

LW#1: Dear Prudie, I’m a principled man writing in today for a principled lady friend of mine. She knows how to write, and could certainly ask you on her own, as she is a vibrant, sensual, strong sex drive-having woman (and boy do we know how those women can write--just look at the supermarket checkout stand!), but, frankly, she doesn’t know that I’m writing to you about this, because, well, I’m just pretending this is all about her honor so that I can get some brownie points. Truth is, once things get going, I don’t plan on being around her too much during the daytime as her husband is such a downer. I’m just providing the stunt penis for this plot, Prudie. So, let’s just pretend this is all about her and her honor and that I’m all concerned about, and don’t want to sully, her good reputation. Okay? Okay. The deal is simple: her husband has Alzheimer’s and she and I want to bang each other like a jackhammer wants to pound cement. There is a war-necessitated separation story that I could talk about, lost love, other honorable, movie-inspiring caveats to our story since she and I last saw each other, and I could try to wrench sympathy out of you by mentioning them, but, really, the banging is the gist. Anyway, my lady friend’s question is this: is it permissible for her to ride me like a rodeo cowboy going for her 8 seconds of glory at the national championships, or would that be inadvisable seeing as she’s still married and caring for her husband? I mean, we’re going to have the sex either way, I’m just asking for the sake of being able to use your approval as moral grounds. Dear Buckling Bronco, since you and I both know that you two are already banging like a couple of college kids on ecstasy, why not let’s dispense with the bullshit. The only thing that you two need to worry about are your family and friends and making sure that they understand the situation. You certainly don’t need their approval for having the sex, of course, but, you may desire their understanding of the whole circumstance, especially in the coming years when you need them most. And a little discretion now can go a long way in the future toward that end. Happy trails, Pokey...

LW#2: Dear Prudie, I like a girl. I think she likes me. I don’t know. So, to complicate the issue and set precedence for myself that’ll be nearly impossible to maintain, I thought I’d splurge on a gift and card and have them delivered anonymously as a Valentine’s extravaganza! Then, I’d swoop in, let her know the stuff came from me and ask her out. How could that possibly go wrong?  In my mind, this will work something like those scenes from the “Twilight” movies where Edward takes off his shirt, all sparkly and manly, and Dippy Doodle Girly Poo gushes and then swoons. What say you? Do I have a chance? I hope that you’re a very young man with a pure heart and sincere intentions because, if not, I just suffered through that entire letter and subsequent puking episode for nothing. Assuming you are a real and sincere person, actually interested in this girl, let me tell you what works better than anything in the whole world: honesty. Sure, that flashy shit is great for a moment. And other people will advise you on how you can manipulate the panties right off of the Statue of Liberty if you follow their foolproof method of panty removal, but, I’m here to tell you that flowers fade and manipulation doesn’t last. Sincerity and honesty, though? Good combination with a lot more staying power. Just wait until after the Valentine's weekend because, as Prudie says, this holiday does weird things to some people, and then go up to her and ask her out. You can even tell her that you think she’s really wonderful and that you’ve been struggling with the best way to ask her out and that you just decided to go for it. If she likes you, she’ll like that. Trust me.

LW#3: Dear Prudie, my mom’s friend, “Alice” has never been married, but she does have several cats. Her age and cats are important to the plot, damnit! Anyway, Alice recently met a man, “Lying McDipshitty” who seemed very nice at first, and even asked her to marry him (after just a few weeks), but, my mom, Alice’s cats and I are concerned, Prudie. Lying McDipshitty has been telling Alice that he attended my alma matter, that he was a football star there, and, that he was drafted into the NFL. He also apparently became a fighter pilot instructor (that’s why he’s out of town every weekend). Finally, he claims to be very rich, but, because likes to keep his chi extracted every day, he works in a hardware store and keeps his money locked away safely so that he won’t spend it. I’ve done some Internet sleuthing, since that sort of thing is the purview of the young (you know, definitely under-40 crowd!), and found that Lying McDipshitty is actually a lying dipshit--not a single thing he’s said is true! I want to forward my findings to Alice via an anonymous e-mail account (again, because we youngsters know how to do that sort of thing) so she can be on guard against this obvious con man. My mom wants to wait. What should we and Alice's cats do? You know, when I was back in Nuclear Power School (and this is a true story, by the by) I had a classmate named Bowler (last name, obviously). He had the amazing good fortune of having done and accomplished everything Lying McDipshitty claims to have done, plus more. We eventually starting keeping a list of each of Bowler's exploits, only entering items on the list when they’d been heard by at least two different people (for airtight verification). At the end of school, the list was two pages long! We presented it to Bowler as a graduation present, explaining to him the rules of how we’d gathered the information, in the hopes that it might change him.  You know what? He looked at the list, then right at us and started going down the rows, item by item, explaining how each and every one of them was true, or how we'd obviously misheard him, and, adding new details! Boy, weren’t we ashamed! Well, no, not really. No shame. I was amazed by his sociopathy, though, I'll admit that. But, point is, Prudie nailed it. Give this woman the information you've found. Don’t be sneaky, be honest (plus, genius, you do realize that only a few people know of Lying and his proposal, what he's told Alice, and actually know Alice's e-mail address, and it won't be hard for her to figure, among those who do know everything who sent her the stuff, right?  I mean, her cats are cool and all, but they can't really send e-mail.  Just so you know.). If she’s pissed, say, “Alice, we just thought you should know” and then leave it at that. There’s not much else you can do, but, as for Lying McDipshitty? You don’t have to entertain his falsities at all. Ever. You can flat out call him out if he tries that shit on you.  You don't have to hold back for Alice's sake, or for your mom, or even for Alice's cats.  You don't have to hold back for anyone! And I encourage you not to.  He pulls a line on you, you call his ass out!

LW#4: Dear Prudie, have you ever heard that Southern phrase “I’m fixin’ to get ready to...”? Well, my boyfriend and I are in college and we’re fixin’ to get ready to think about considering making plans for a long-term commitment. At some point.  We have always been non-monogamous sexually, while being monogamous emotionally. I want that to change as we graduate and start considering thinking about making arrangements to plan for a wedding. I have a feeling he doesn’t want things to change at all, though. I don’t know if he does, because I haven’t broached the subject with him. How do I overcome this irrational idea that we should change our sexual habits just because we’re no longer going to be in college? Well, chicky-doodle, here’s what it boils down to: honesty. Talk to your boyfriend about what you’re feeling. I have a guess that he’s the super rational one and he’ll be all, “Judith, you know that’s not rational, you’re being sooo-o-o bourgeois!” And then you, being less rational, but thinking it a grand ideal to strive toward achieving, because you’re totally unsure of yourself and just starved for his approval, will be all, “But Seymour, you know I love you and I’d do anything for you, of course you can do whatever you like because my feelings are irrelevant!” And frankly, Judith, that’s just stupid. There’s nothing wrong with living however you like. And if you’d ever read Prudie before, you would have known that polyamory is just a road too far for her. You’ll never get good advice from her on the subject because, like your boyfriend, she can’t acknowledge that there are shades of gray. What you have to do is be in a relationship where you can express yourself honestly and feel good about it, regardless of what rules or boundaries you've set up previously, and regardless of how your feelings change over time. So long as you’re both happy and feel like you can respectfully discuss anything you want, it’s all good. That’s what you need to search for. If you can’t find that with Seymour Billingsly Rationalman III, find it with someone else. And as for the fixing to get ready to think about doing something? Knock it off and start living your life.

Well shippers, that’s about it for this week. I’ve been craving some homemade fried catfish all week, or, whoa, maybe some trout! You just don’t know how good it can be until you’ve plucked it straight from the water, cleaned it, and plopped it in the pan, all smothered in cornmealy goodness within just fifteen minutes of that little feller having been happily swimming around with all of his buds. Oh, it’s a beautiful thing and it’s been far too long. Fair winds and following seas to you, shippers.


  1. Do I lose shipper points if I confess that I have experienced that but still am pretty apathetic about most fish most of the time (excluding tuna from a can [I know, the HORROR] and halibut done up as fish 'n' chips)?

    I am pretty much a fan of shellfish, but only when I'm in the mood for it.

    Meanwhile, I love the names you came up with this week! And, the "fixing to get ready to.." meme. It was especially funny because I could hear so many of my relatives saying something like that. =-)

  2. Love it. Can I also just say that warning bells, blinking lights, and one of those old-timey ahhh-ooog-gah horns go off in my head when someone used the word "rational" in the same sentence as "relationship." Just like Captain Achievement in Letter #3, Captain Rational is Letter #4 is pulling some hardcore manipulation on his ladyfriend. Take it from someone who spent WAY too long nodding my heading in agreement with statements like:

    "I know you're upset that I'm not spending ANY of my three weeks of vacation with you, but think about this rationally: I have the opportunity to hike to Machu Pichu with my friends. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I can always spend time with you later. And who cares if I spent my last 3 week vacation without you... THAT was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, too. Be rational about this."


    "I know you're in the hospital right now, but the doctors have said you're going to be fine and I'm the president of my acapella society. Who is going to run practice if I'm not there? Think about this rationally."

    It wasn't until I grew a spine that I realized that relationships and love are NOT rational. Not rational at all. And that's OKAY. That's NORMAL. And any man who's pulling the rationality card on you isn't giving you the love and respect you deserve. Take it from someone who finally found annd married a GREAT guy (who won't even go to work if I have the flu)(AND doesn't sing acapella... bonus points). ;)

  3. Greetings Libby. No loss of shipper points for you! It's okay if you don't care for the freshest of fresh fish, cooked by the skillful hands of a goddess (or god, depending). That's your choice. ;-) Glad you liked the fixin' to get ready. It's something I've often thought about doing...once I quit fixin' to and actually get on with it. ;-)

  4. Greetings Tressea! Welcome! I haven't seen you in these waters before, but your commentary is most welcome any time! Thank you for stopping by and please spread the word!

    Greetings aside, let's get down to business! I'm with you on the rational thing. The word can be used with numbers with 100% accuracy and lack of subjectivity. All other uses of the word and concept (that I can think of right now, anyway) are subjective to one degree or another. As such, one must always be "rational" enough to understand that everything has degrees of subjectivity. Your Machu Pichu example is perfect. It certainly is a "rational" point to make that it's a once-in-a-lifetime chance, but, I would guess that you had an equally rational counter point. For example, "Us spending time together this weekend is also a once-in-a-lifetime-chance and after blowing me off on your last three vacations, it's the last chance your sorry ass is going to get. See, once-in-a-lifetime, too?"

    So, in truth, Machu Pichu is a choice that has some level of rationality. It's like the Beatles song "We Can Work It Out". See it his way, all will work out, BUT, if he sees it your way, there's a chance of things breaking up. So he's rational, you're not. Brilliant! Penis power does not equal rationality, no matter how much the penis-holder desires to think that it is, but, by golly, some idiots will certainly make that argument!

    Acapella society practice is another example of choice. But, too, so is staying home with a wife who has the flu. And sometimes that choice is more rational than not. And sometimes it's not rational at all. "I don't want to piss off my wife" is just as rational as having to go to work to pay the bills. So sometimes choices are made. And that's just life. And there is rationality, but it's not absolute. Ever. Except with numbers.

    Again, welcome! Please come back and post often. :-)

  5. SB1 - Well, as I ended up spending more than four hours on LW1, I ran out of steam and could not do full justice to LW4. Having known several women capable of driving themselves this crazy entirely on their own with a completely bewildered and totally innocent man in the car just along for the ride, I'll withhold judgment until we know a few more of the details. It might be the tiniest bit sexist to assume that a woman only gets to Locoland if she's been chauffeured by a man, not that I think you're assuming that, but I am almost starting to wonder if maybe LW4 might on some level like to give out that impression...

    My post in which I was the first to specualte on the exact nature of their nonexclusive arrangement was deleted, alas, but it did seem as if some people were assuming that he's boinking everything in sight while she sits around telling herself how GGG she is, and others were having them swinging more or less 50-50. If the former, I shall endorse your portrait of Seymour unreservedly.

    But I shudder at the thought of this person even thinking about beginning to start planning for possibly becoming engaged to maybe one day in the distant future when Libra and Mars collide possibly getting married...

    It may not be very likely, but, after reflecting on a comment Ms Messy tossed out earlier, I think the resolution I'd most enjoy would be if the two of them were to break up because they can't even have The Conversation, only to discover many years later that he ALSO wanted monogamy but thought that she was so cool and rational and would think him such a dork or maybe way too controlling if he admitted to wanting them to be sexually exclusive that he could never make himself tell her and that he even went so far as to make up 90% of his outside encounters...

    Just a nice modern twist on O Henry.

  6. Ahoy, Smag!

    All that brilliant commentary, and I'm going to focus on: the food.

    When I was a kid, we went on camping/fishing trips and caught rainbow trout in the wee hours, then we'd bring it back to camp and my dad would clean it (with me holding the Gut Bag). Then my mom would place a strip of bacon inside the fish and cook it over the campfire. Served up hot and fresh with some home fries, it was one of the best meals of my childhood!!

    Thanks for the mention of trout! Memory sparks!


  7. Smag:

    Silicosis here.

    I know the pleasures of fresh fish directly from the water. I've eaten the hearts of freshly killed yellow-tails. I've sliced albacore on the hatch cover and served it with hot sauce and shoyu. As far as trout goes, I prefer the smaller ones--a little bigger than fingerlings. The larger fish tend to taste muddy. The only good catfish I ever had was at the Ragin' Cajun in Houston. The catfish we buy here in California is pretty nasty.

    Sorry to post anonymously. I don't know how to select a profile--I'm not that computer savvy. I've been reading the fray for a couple of years and just started posting recently. One of Messy's obsure movie quotations prompted me to post something. She suggested I come over here.

  8. Greetings hrumpole! As always, you've caused me to think considerably about these letters. And, after that consideration, I must admit to a bit of sexism in my response to LW#4, as you suggest. I started with the clear intention of admonishing the LW for not being willing to communicate her desires to her BF and, by the end, I'd fallen entirely into a traditional gender take where the woman is the victim of the conniving, sex-starved male (well, perhaps not "fallen entirely", but, I certainly let at least one of my two feet be snared by this trap!).

    So, I'll acknowledge that it's entirely possible that the BF may be suffering from the same concerns/desires as our LW, if not more. And, too, that the LW could be fully behind the wheel of this bus to Crazy Town. I'm ashamed to admit that I went for the typical stereotype, hook, line and sinker there, even though I didn't start out with that in mind.

    Does it make the mistake any less egregious if I can demonstrate here in the comments that I've learned from my oversights? ;-)

  9. skoorbza! Ahoy, mate! It's been many moons since you've graced the lagoon and I've missed you. :-) Welcome back! Oh yes, trout is a beautiful thing! I must admit that I've never tried that, never even thought of it, which, truth is, is a sin in and of itself as I'm a huge fan of mixing meats! (let's just leave that comment right there, shall we?) A bacon strip IN the freshly cleaned trout or catfish would be divine. I'm glad that I could spark the memory. Thank YOU for the culinary inspiration! :-)

  10. Greetings Silicosis! I'm so glad that Messy brought you over. Welcome! Please stop by any time and bring friends. The water is warm and there's plenty of room. :-) Oh, you're making my mouth water...

    No worries about posting anonymously! It's taken me awhile to learn how to move around this site, too. Welcome again, and have a great day!

  11. Hey Smag!
    "He also apparently became a fighter pilot instructor (that's why he's out of town every weekend)".
    L.M.A.O. :D
    But really, why don't they just tell the lady what they found out, instead of sitting her down and waving a bunch of papers at her, like she is the one who has done something wrong and now has to Explain Herself?
    Oh, and valentine's guy: she's not into you. Okay, i'm just being mean now...but seriously, where do people come up with this shit? What's so hard about saying, hey you want to go get some dinner?

  12. SB1 - I just hated to see you pulling a semi-Prudie! You did start with a very plausible hypothesis, but I've really been dying to cross-examine on the exact nature of the agreement and to what extent both parties have been living within and up to it. I really think it makes a difference; certainly it probably explains whether she's Desperation Girl, Miss GGG, or the second coming of Helen Reddy. But you fire a torpedo at people and I create reasonable doubt. Double win. It would probably be a lot of fun to defend Seymour - more so defending him than an innocent client.

    I think I hope he's not Seymour largely because LW4 then might dump him, but this still makes her a really slow learner who will probably fall for other Seymours and irritate us all.

    I really think, though, I might have been just a trace surprised after the previous week. I definitely thought to myself that you'd probably give the boyfriend at least provisional credit fro not claiming ownership of LW4's private parts (I have never said the V word in my life and don't think I should start now, although I did once play it to get a triple word score in Scrabble). But if we assume one-sided nonmonogamy... or, even more Seymour-like, that he pushes her to eat her piece of cake in a way that he knows will make her not do it and then feel guilty about it... (wow, we can really make Seymour quite the character, can't we?)

    I was also a little put off by those posters who jumped right to He's Just Not That Into You - as in, no man really cares about a woman if he doesn't claim sole ownership of her private parts.

  13. One more thing - I note the prevalence of the view that monogamy is like flicking a switch. As the wedding, if there is to be one, is so far away in the distant future (it could be years before they even begin to start thinking about planning for when to choose what might be the date), there seems to me to be plenty of time to see if monogamy could be phased in to see how they both like it in increasing dosages. Maybe it's a sexuality thing again, because I for one have seen nm relationships become quite happily m when both parties were ready.

    It seems a shame, if she is to be allowed to be an adult woman in full ownership of her sexuality (even if not her emotions), in which case one acknowledges her having found the agreement workable and just now having come to be ready for a change towards something more marriage-minded, not to allow him to be ready on a different timetable.

  14. Greetings Smaggie,
    Once again a laughable take on LW1, right on! Ride'em Cowboy!
    LW2 So sweet are thou words Submarine Boy.
    LW3 Ah, Alice and her cats, but can we be sure? I wondered why her friends could not just tell her outright as well. Just because she is 40 and never married does not mean she lives inside a barrel. She must of seen some show on con men over the past few years, haven't we all? Why think she's incapable due to her never being married, somehow this may be due to her being highly evolved regarding marriage.
    My shit detector goes off any time someone dating is unavailable during their free time,has all their weekends full...full of someone else or some thing else more exciting than her is more like it. In my experience men who want you are there, ya can't shake them off with a stick. When there is an event they go to without you, they explain with details and are certain to nail you down on what you are doing when they are free afterwards, later in the week, whatever. You know they are interested as they won't have it any other way. They want your free time.
    They may have a set of rules regarding monogamy within a relationship that differs from your idea but that's something you both discuss and agree to or not. Oh, your Penis does not want a exclusive relationship with my breaker? Or, hmmmm my Vagina can have any Penis it wishes and have yours too? How divine! Or not!
    I'm amazed young women who can't speak about their needs are at the same time thinking of marriage? At what point do they think their needs will be met in marriage if they can't speak about everything beforehand to what should be their closest ali?
    Somehow my entire being believes that if a young man you are dating in college does not solely want your Vagina completely to himself, that he's fine if you have a variety of sexual experiences with a variety of men, that marriage is not on his mind at all. Why would it be? Hmmm, why?
    I would like to have an understanding of non-monogamous relationships, do they start out that way or evolve over time to wanting other partners? I simply can't picture the scenario where upon your second, third date, two weeks, whatever that the man states his desire for other partner's but you may be 'the one' he's going to marry and wants your take on this? How does that work?

    I briefly was exposed to two open marriages but do they begin that way? I was too astounded to ask my questions. And I was embarrassed for them. As I stood in line at the grocery store with the woman and she explained that the clerk was a fun guy, she had him on their Free Thursday Night where they 'had' anyone they wanted, not one word leapt forth out of my mouth. This was news for me, I had no idea.

    This was the same woman that several weeks later when I understood she was priming me for my husband that I stood on her doorstep explaining that I was highly territorial and would bloody her should she move on my man and she needed to make that decision right away as I was ready to give her a beating immediately if she did not cease her thinking and move on to another fun grocery clerk somewhere. Needless to say she made a good decision that day. I was a young woman who knew what I needed in a relationship and wasn't afraid to speak my mind.

    I have trouble understanding young women who have not asked themselves what they want out of life nor what they will deem important enough to fight for.

    Everyone gets to decide what makes them happy in a marriage, but if you are completely clueless as to what that is...stay single. Even if that means you turn 40 and meet a huge liar that worries your friends!

    Gee, and I didn't think I had much to say this fine Prudie day.

    Last week Cheeseburger's this week Fried Fish...yum!

    Happy trails everyone...until next week...

  15. Hi Smag! Thank you for another rollicking good marine adventure.

    My sister's MIL was victimized by a con man with much the same story as in LW #3. Sis and BIL researched him and even had confirmation from his children how bad he was. The MIL refused to believe it and cut off contact with her family for a while. I think it all finally worked out without her losing everything but it wasn't pretty.

    Have a great weekend!

  16. Smag as always, you are my Heeeeeeeerrrrrrrooooooooooo! *batting eyelashes* !

    Silicosis - Only Tonto seems to get the movie references, so I think they're probably more obscure than I think they are. It was "Pirates of the Caribbean", which is rapidly ascending on my list of Favorite Movies. "The Princess Bride is still at the top, though.

    Welcome to the silliness!

  17. That trout wrapped bacon actually sounds pretty good. Now I'm thinking that a camping trip this summer with some fishing might be ok....weird. LOL

  18. Hey JayJay! Welcome back! :-) You know, I don't know, either, why they don't tell Alice? The only thing that would stop me would be if I had any doubt, but, even just reading the letter, I didn't need to do any research. I had no doubt just from what he'd claimed. Alice needs to be told, then they need to accept her decision. That's all they can do.

    As for our pining young man, I'm hoping his inability to ask is only due to his age/lack of experience. Here's hoping he does ask. It could be great, but, if not, at least he'll know and can move on and try again.


  19. Greetings hrumpole! :-)

    Ouch, you've cut me to the quick. A "semi-Prudie"? Well, truth is, you're correct. I was. But, as I say, I can be taught, so, that's a point in my favor (not to say that I'm keeping score against Prudie, just saying).

    In this case, what took me to Seymour-ville was the fact that the LW seemed cogent, intelligent and confident enough to explain her non-traditional set-up to Prudie and her readers, but is not able to speak to her BF. So, even though that inability *may* be of her own invention, and I do agree that she must speak to him (!), I think it's at least plausible that it's due to her already knowing his answer, and knowing that she won't like it. At all. And I guess that I felt sorry for her a little and lost my objectivity.

    As for monogamy, I'm not sure it's the natural state of humans. I'm pretty convinced that it's not, actually. But, our current society presses the idea pretty hard, so, I do understand how it's easy to believe and defend it without second thought. That's not to excuse it, just to say that I see where the tendency comes from.

    Have a wonderful weekend, hrumpole!

  20. Greetings Debbie, and Ahoy! I trust that you had a wonderful week and found this week's letters to be a nice end-of-the-week treat?

    I agree in that I don't see why Alice's friends don't just tell her. I was turned off, too, by the inclusion of her age and marital status. I realize that the young LW felt those facts to be important, and perhaps they are, but, regardless, there's only one thing to be done whether Alice is a divorcée five times over, or, has never been kissed, and that's to tell her what's been found in a matter-of-fact, "We're sorry, but...", kind of way. Here's hoping they do just that.

    As for open marriages and their execution, I've never known a couple in a truly open marriage. At least, if I did know them, I didn't know that they had such an arrangement! I'm a happy and blissful man and I don't care what people do with one another (nor would I presume to). I would not be offended to be asked to participate in such an arrangement, would actually be flattered, actually, although, truth is, I would decline as I'm not in a relationship that allows for such things and so have never even considered the possibility, actually. But, that's the point, isn't it? The ability and freedom and mutual respect to be *able* to express oneself and ask things when they need to be asked? We should all hope for that from our partners. :-)

    As for the woman looking to work over your husband's goody bag, I can understand your, um, resistance. ;-) No one likes to be primed/manipulated. Just ask me up front, no games, and then drop it if the answer is no. Actually, develop enough of a RADAR so that asking is all but unnecessary. Either way, though, is respectful, and, to me, that's fine. The priming and gaming, though? No good. And I can understand your frustration.

    Happy trails to you, too, Deb! :-)

  21. Hey Beckaroo! It's wonderful to see you here in the lagoon once again. :-) And I love that your and Messy's kitteh icons are one on top of the other in this thread. :-)

    I'm glad that all worked out for you MIL. In the end, it sounds like everyone did all they could to help. Sometimes, we have to put on our adult undies and suffer the consequences. Sounds like everyone got through it intact, though. And that's a good thing!

    Good cheer to you, Beckaroo! :-)

  22. Oh Messy, you make my knees weak when you do that. I'm so easy, it's pathetic. ;-)

    And Libby, I love the way you phrased that, "trout-wrapped bacon"! Yes! That's the stuff! :-)

  23. Ahoy Captain Smag!

    Good advice as usual but the letters got me so bored (except for the senior boiking! Always gladens my heart) I had to get back on my pedal boat and get the hell out.

    I had a visual of getting the statue of Liberty to take her panties off1 I wonder if I could use it as a sail?

  24. Madd Libby had the best idea of wrapping that trout with the bacon. I had visions of a slice of bacon inside the trout all limp and uncooked while that trout was overcooked. Hmmm...but on the outside, yum. Bacon is yummy anytime but outdoors it's outrageous!

    Trout, we catch them, clean them and spray them with cooking oil and plop them directly on the barbecue grill. Easy, no fishy dishes to clean beforehand and a wonderful fast outdoor meal ready in very little time.

    Smaggie...I so hope our little Alice of 40 years has told her new guy that she's trained on a M-1 Abrams Tank, cooked with Julia Child, was a White House Aid, and performed with Cirque de Soleil! And on her free weekends she needs to rest, so it's good that he's busy!

    Until next week...happy trails...

  25. Hey Kati! And greetings! I'm sorry that you couldn't stay for long, but, it's always nice to see you here. :-) As for a panty sail, I don't know why not? I wonder if they're that same greenish color that her robes are, or if she wears frilly pink ones? ;-)

  26. Oh, Debbie, what about bacon inside AND outside of the trout?! And yes, the grill definitely works, too. :-)

    As for Alice's strategy, Debbie, as long as she's aware of what she's getting into with this guy, I'm for her doing whatever she'd like. I just don't want to see her lose her shirt over the deal, you know?

  27. I hear you Smaggie on Alice. One fine day I caught an episode of Oprah where several women were duped by the same guy for unrecoverable large amounts of money. I too hope that every woman dating knows not to give their hard earned money away, for any reason, to whomever they are dating. I don't care what sad story is involved if the man figured out his financial life before you, he sure can figure out his financial needs without involving you now.

    And now for the fun food needs, thank you everyone for my now overactive taste buds...I'm dashing out to have one fine Bacon Cheeseburger and chips!

  28. Herd"T"hinner here, hopefully not posting too late for anyone to read this?? I moved last week and had a hella time "seeing" the open wifi network in the house (sister's). It was Sunday before I finally saw a webpage! Long story why I now live with Sis.

    "Everyone gets to decide what makes them happy in a marriage, but if you are completely clueless as to what that is...stay single."

    It's why I've stayed single.

    This week's letters also bored me - not Aqualad's interpretation of them, of course - but LW3 was a bit of an eye-roller. In fact, I'd love to meet that kind of guy, just so I can give my eyes a proper workout. And Alice's cats suck. A dog would have the proper instinct to growl and bark a lot at him, as a secret signal to its mistress that Lovah Boy is in reality... A Werewolf!! Dogs can totally sense a werewolf.

    (btw, I'm an all-around aminal lovah, so don't scratch out my eyes for bagging on cats)

    LW4 - ah, never mind, still boring in spite of the polyamory, or whatever those two have been doing.

  29. herd'T'hinner! It's great to see you! Congratulations on the move (if those are in order?), or, my condolences on the move (if *those* are in order?). Your choice. :-) Regardless, I hope that you're settled in now and doing okay? Here's hoping that you didn't suffer a lot of snow or nastiness as you were moving?

    Given your past posts, herdthinner, I would LOVE to see you deal with LW#3's beau. I'd bring some pop corn, you could bring the dog. And, no worries about baggin' on the cats. We all have our preferences.

    Here's hoping that, a) next week's letters are better, and, b) that your move was smooth, no major mishaps, and that you're all nice and settled.

    Cheers! :-)

  30. Debbie, how was your bacon cheeseburger and chips? I want you to know that your post has now caused my mouth to start watering, dagnabit! :-)

  31. Hell'000000 HerdThinner....Helll'0000 Smaggie....
    I was so good at being single, there is no way I would have ever married the wrong guy just to be married. I'm not that fond of Tylenol and the ensuing headache would never be worth my time.
    Even though I am a dog person I'd choose cats over a man that was not a good fit. For me having cats means dipping poo out of some store bought faux-dirt, just thinking about having that bin makes my nose scrunch up in distaste. I had one cat once, which faster than any young woman could imagine turned into three, what they breed at 12 weeks old or something wild like that? Here I thought she was a wee kitty and she was vamping nightly. Since I value commitment I kept them in good care until they died and have not had a cat since. I did love the little fur balls.
    But my dog never hops on top of my car, nor jumps on my counter to lick the butter and somehow I don't miss that nor the dipping of the poo. And I don't miss how cats bring in whatever they have caught outside under ones kitchen table for show and tell either. I must say that I am caught off guard and in wonder at their purring though...what a fun sound that is! If only dogs purred...imagine that!

    I am simply amazed that humans can live in harmony with dogs or cats. I love my dog, she is a beautiful animal. To be happily married you need to love your man more than any pet, think they are cuter than any pet, find joy in picking up after them as they need your help too, and you need to understand and know their kind before deciding to bring them home to live.

    You wouldn't bring a cat home if dipping poo is not to your liking. You would not bring a Tarantella home if you worried about loosing your eyesight(unless you drank copious amounts of booze and lost your ability to think while your naked legs flail helplessly in the air) or a Python if you didn't wish to feed it live mice. Buying banana's weekly is enough for me, adding live mice to my shopping list would put me over the edge. And I hate it on that edge.

    When I dated I had a list of what I knew for fact that I could not, would not live with. It left me open to all the things I had not yet encountered, it gave me a starting point.

    LW4 the college girl, I doubt very much if she is capable of deciding on what domestic animal she could or would want to live with. She is clueless about valuing her happiness, she does not sound as if this thought ever occurred to her, it's all about him, and he's a single college guy...what's that tell you?

    Lw3 And Dear Alice, no where in her letter did the word cat appear...our dear Smaggie gave her cats to go with her old fashioned name and her being able to live into her 40's without being married. I'm taking away the cats and giving her a Lambourgini, a view apartment with her sister and a job she loves where the sun always shines! And I must say, her Brian, being a pilot and a NFL football hero, I doubt his job at a Hardware Store fits his need for excitement, nor his ego, leaving his wealth behind to work selling calking and screws....don't think so!

    Gosh, all those thoughts over my first cup of coffee this morning. Maybe I should not write until I am fully awakened, then again maybe this is my way of living dangerously via ramdom thoughts?

    Ah, Smaggie, I had that Bacon Cheeseburger but it was not bacon'y enough, it was not meaty enough, it just lacked the vibrancy my taste buds wanted...bummer. Next I shall fire up the barbecue and stand in the dark to get THE CHEESEBURGER OF ALL TIME....ya like that won't set me up for failure.

    Happy trails....

  32. Thanks to you, Debbie, I went and tried out the neighborhood burger joint. Dangit! Now I know where to get good burgers a half mile from my house. And they have killer shakes too. Which means I now have to calculate how many laps I'd have to make between my house and the house of burgers to make it ok to eat there with any regularity...

  33. Hey Debbie! You need to go to this place for the superlative burger. It only seats a dozen people, so go for 11:30. Trust me.

  34. Greetings Smag'sters!

    Aunt Messy...what a restaurant! The menu is fantastic. I'd need to stay for a week to try several burgers. And the beer list, impressive. I had to laugh at their...death to Miller and Budweiser statement.

    Gotta love these people as the list of holiday's they celebrate by closing the doors was quite long. Seems like they have created their own magical place on their own terms...people that know what makes them happy. I know at least one of the ten great burgers on that menu would make me happy!

    I'm standing in the dark tonight grilling my own little bit of heaven on a bun! And having a salad...after I mow the yard. Spring is here, grass growing, trees budding, birds acting all frisky, and the humans are lighting up the barbecue grills.

    Happy trails...until tomorrow...