From a Submariner's Perspective is a weekly column, written in response to the letters sent in to advice columnist "Prudie" at Each week, The Submariner responds to the letter writers in a way that author, Emily Yoffe, probably can't (but perhaps would like to...). Each entry is headed with a link to the orginal questions and Yoffe's answers. Enjoy!

Also, if you have questions that you'd like answered by The Submariner, or anyone here at "The Fly", just write to me at and I'll forward to the appropriate party/parties for an answer (or you can write to them directly via the e-mail addresses on their pages)! Once the answers are published, I'll drop you a note letting you know.

Thursday, June 10, 2010

...on Learning Mommy Was A Real Person, Too (6/09/10) <---Original Prudie Letters Can Be Found There

Hey hidey-ho, Shippers! How in the hell are ya on this fine, fine Prudie Day? All here is well. There’s been rain, and lots of it, but I don’t mind. I’d rather there be rain than drought, you know? Plus, I know for an absolute fact that the sun is going to be shining in all of its radiant glory any day now. I guess I’m an optimist in that regard. Or psychic. Or a meteorologist? Nah, just optimistic. Anyway, enough of that. We’ve got letters! So, rather than indulge my alternative career fantasies, let’s get crackin’, shall we?

LW#1: Dear Prudie, I’m lost. Even more than normal. See, my mom died when I was a teenager, so, I’ve spent the last thirty years making her into a quasi-goddess. A saint-on-Earth. An icon. I preach about her to my children. I pray to her at night. I inform anyone who’ll listen that I’m living for my mother’s memory and that it is what nourishes me, sustains me, fulfills me. Sadly, though, in recently helping my father move into an apartment, I received my mother’s personal diary. Of course I read it, and I found out that that damned bitch hated me! What a whore! I hate her now more than ever, Prudie. She probably cheated on my wonderfully perfect and magnanimous dad, Prudie, and probably raped me as a child, too. What can I do, Prudie?

Dear Poor Sad Crushed Little Girl, there’s only thing for it. Start living your own damned life, you know, for your own self, based on your own standards and your own morals, instead of trying to deify and demonize the people around you and pretend that it’s for them that you live your life and meet your successes and suffer your failures. They’re human beings, just like you. Nothing more, nothing less. They are no more worthy of your worship or damnation than the kitchen garbage pail. If you can’t live for yourself, you’re relegating everyone around you into some sort of fantasy world that doesn’t exist except in your own warped head. I strongly suggest some counseling in an effort to try to get at why you can’t connect with people in a realistic and healthy way. You need it. Desperately.

LW#2: Dear Prudie, my husband and I host frequent get-togethers at our home for a group of our church friends. One of the wives recently confided in me that her husband finds it difficult to control his lust for other women. At the next meeting, I noticed she was patting her neck in an apparent clandestine message meant to encourage me to button up my blouse, which, by the way, Prudie, was buttoned all the way up save for one button?! I changed my top rather than confront this woman, but, after thinking about it, I realized the behavior was quite rude. The blouse was perfectly acceptable! Am I really responsible for wearing a frumpy sweatshirt with trash bag over it every time we host a party?

Dear Poor Sad Hallelujah Hostess, there’s only one thing for it. You have to come to the realization that this woman is insanely jealous of you. She’s worked it up in her mind that her husband wants you. Badly. And she’s determined that the root of his lust is your tits. But don’t worry. Cover them up and next week it’ll be your legs. And then your hips. You know the answer here: either quit inviting this woman into your home, period, or, if you choose to continue to do so, the next time she tries her little “you need to cover up your skanky-assed ho self” routine, you can walk over and say, “Sally, you have a choice. I’m dressed appropriately. If you can’t handle it, you’ll need to remove yourself from the situation because I won’t be changing my attire to suit you.” Notice how I didn’t say a word about her husband? Good, because believe me, if he’d been staring you down, you’d have noticed. This is all Sally, and your acquiescing on this only emboldens her resolve and feeling of moral righteousness.

LW#3: Dear Prudie, I was recently in a short-term relationship with an aspiring writer/blogger. I value my privacy and didn’t really care to be the subject of any of her blog entries, but, in an effort to keep the peace, I acquiesced on the grounds that she only use my initials when blogging. Well, after the breakup, she’s continued to blog about me, painting me in an unflattering light, like saying I am “emotionally distant”, etc. The fact that she has pictures on her blog makes it worse, and I’m afraid that family, friends and potential employers might see this blog and hold its contents against me. What can I do?

Dear Poor Sad Photographed Ex, there’s only one thing for it. Well, a couple of things, actually, but, I had a theme going and I wasn’t about to break it to satisfy you (did you see that, LW#2, see how it works?). First off, you have to realize that no one’s looking at this lady’s blog. I mean, sure, a few friends and faithful readers (which are very cool to have, by the way), but the world is full of, literally, billions of people. And one of them who shouldn’t be reading her blog anymore, but still is, apparently, is you. So stop it! Damn! What, do you like drama or something? You paying her blog any attention whatsoever is like icing or her cake of self-pity and loathing. So stop it! Finally, if you just can’t get over yourself and your image is that important, recognize that you can easily get the photos removed via legal channels. It’s so easy that a nine-year-old who learns that her dead mother hates her could do it. So read up on applicable law and then keep feeding this woman icing. Unless, you know, you want to move on, drama-free? Nah, didn’t think so.

LW#4: Dear Prudie, there’s a woman at my place of work, “Cindy”, who is about to be fired. She’s a nice lady, but just isn’t cutting it responsibility-wise. She’s been warned several times, is currently on probation, and still hasn’t improved. I’m in management and could tell her that the ax is coming. My hope there would be that she could be more prepared to find a new job by using the extra time to dust off her résumé, look through the wanted ads, etc. Prudie, she was widowed a few years back and is putting her kids through college and it just breaks my heart. Of course, it’s against company policy to tell her what I know, so, it’d be a risk, but, as I say, she’s a nice lady and I’d like to help her out. What should I do?

Dear Poor Sad Woman-in-the-Know, there’s only one thing for it. Zip it! Tell me, Ms. Management Lady, can you not predict how many bad ways ‘til Sunday it could turn out if you decide to tell her? Not only might you lose your job, Cindy might decide to use this extra time to gather whatever information she can to sue your company. Telling her, unless you did it exactly right, using exactly the right words, could come back to haunt you in ways that you’re clearly not thinking about right about. Further, what makes you think she would use her ‘extra’ time in a productive manner? It doesn’t sound like planning is one of her strong points. Now, what you can do to help her is to try to use your network to find a job for her that she can handle. It might do for you to offer a shoulder after she’s been let go, perhaps take her to dinner or have coffee with her, let her vent, etc. But, you should never, ever, ever talk about what you know or what anyone at work has said about her or her work. The conversation about her firing needs to be a one-way street, from her to you. Point being, there are things you can do to help without risking your own livelihood. And if you want to help her, that’s the best way.

Well Shippers, that about does it for me this week. I hope that you’re all doing wonderfully well on this fine, fine Prudie Day and that your week and weekend are as wonderful as ever! So, until next week, fair winds and following seas to you, Shippers!


  1. Oh Captain, my Captain!

    Excellent advice, as always ~ especially #2! I think all of this is in the wife's head. She's feeling insecure about something in her marriage and she's projectiling all over the women in her radius. Talk about your OMG Helicopter Wife! Her husband might be horrified to know what she's been saying about him to keep women away from him. If I was the LW I would have pretended I didn't know what her little chest pat meant or else gone the wholly evil Mermaid route and gone in and changed into the tightest turtleneck I could find.

    On LW#3 ~ Don't you love it when someone breaks up with someone and the dumpee accuses the dumper of being "emotionally distant"? No shit, Sherlock. That's one of the signs you're no longer TOGETHER. Duh!

    So, how are things on your side of the Lagoon, Diving Buddy? It's lovely over here on my side. Wanna come see? ;)

  2. Hail, SB1 - superb on LW1, as I expected. Somehow that seemed right up your alley.

    I am so angry with myself for taking nearly nine hours to write this week's when I really did mean to be done by 2:00 or 3:00 p.m. that I shall not be up to saying much of anything worthwhile. Besides, L4 has me so depressed that I shall go to bed early. How did we ever get to such a point where it has become a routine thing every day for people to be put in that position of having to go for a month knowing what's about to happen and not being able to do a single thing about it? I really think this is a deliberate tactic being used to dehumanize people and turn everyone into good Corporate Droids who will swallow the Company Line and spew the Team Spirit. And it's not as if one can just opt out of the system painlessly - it's probably even harder to do than to live without money because one disapproves of In God We Trust.

    Well, at least my unnaturally good mood has now been killed off; that's one good thing. Of course, my spending two hours replying to your comment on tennis only to have the reply eaten by the site contributed to that as well. What I did put up at last was but a pale imitation.

    Have a good one. I should be back in a decent mood by Wimbledon.

  3. Ahoy! It's been raining on and off for just about a month now, with tiny periods of sun to tease us in WA that summer is coming. Then we're back to 55 and showers. This mind game nature plays... It's so disheartening!

    Awesome job on the LWs, however! I like the take on 2 as well as 4. I wonder if LW4 has considered that being fired could make Cindy angry, and that she may take down anyone else she can with her? Some people get vindictive if they think that you had any part in their downfall.

  4. Smaggie, you've done it again !

    Failed, that is.

    Aren't we all living for someone else ? If you told me that I was 100% guaranteed never to see Jessica Alba and Grace Park, '69'ing in my living room, I'd just go out, right now, and drive my car at 100 mph into the nearest thieving Irish gypsy's caravan.

  5. asking for a &quot;friend&quot;June 11, 2010 at 10:56 AM

    LW #1, Mr. Rye Whiskey is my anthropomorphic idol - he makes me funnier! :).

    LW #2, what about just totally whoring it up and slapping rouge on and leaving shirt open to the point of being obscene? would the hubby in question spontaneously com-bust then?

    LW #3, will this blog forever memorialize my inane questions/comments? :).

    LW #4, can I just put a blank piece of paper w/ a black dot on it in her lunch bag. :).

  6. Hey there, MM, and ahoy! You tricked me! I went over to your side of the Lagoon to see the new Loveliness that you were describing, but there's no entry! Were you just talking about your own Beauty, you cheeky monkey?! :-)

    As for the letters, I agree with you on LW#2. I've seen compelling evidence for the husband to have actually said something, but, even if that's so, the crazy lady had no right to then approach the LW. At all. None! Nada! As for the tightest turtle neck possible, I figured you'd just do your normal sans top? ;-)

    Good cheer, as always, Diving Buddy! :-)

  7. Greetings hrumpole. :-) I'm sorry to hear about your tennis post, but, I did read your abbreviated response, and I appreciate the answer. It's funny, though, because I'm not a fan of (especially) the US Open golf tournament for just that reason! :-) Seems that it really limits success to a very limited (and not necessarily practiced) set of skills. Such that someone who typically doesn't place in the top 15 can challenge. And that insults my sense of golf reality! :-) But I do understand it. And, as I'm sure you pointed out in your longer post, the conditions are the same on one side of the net from the other, and, even if they weren't, the players swap sides frequently enough in the match.

    LW#4 bothered me, too, but, the shame of it is that, as you say, it can honestly very easily turn into a situation where both would lose their jobs. :-( Although, your lamentation about living with no money put me in mind of Thoreau's "Walden". I go through cycles of grand appreciation (bordering on reverence) and distaste for that tome. But most of the time I'm much closer to the reverence end of the spectrum. It's just not something that I have the gumption to attempt.

    I hope that all's well and that you have a wonderful weekend. Cheers! :-)

  8. Ahoy, Corey! "I wonder if LW4 has considered that being fired could make Cindy angry, and that she may take down anyone else she can with her?" This was exactly my concern, too! I can just see all sorts of potential problems here. As hrumpole said, it is a shame that that's the way of things, but, there it is.

    Good cheer! :-)

  9. Greetings Tarq and ahoy, Matey! We all may be living for someone else, sure, but, in a completely different way than our LW. As you said, you desire to see two beautiful women 69ing in your living room (and I'm quite sure you wouldn't mind joining in, eh?). That's not living for their approval, though, that's living in order to objectify them whilst reaching orgasm! Very, very different thing! ;-)

    Good cheer! :-)

  10. Ahoy, asking for a friend!

    I love your take on #2, especially! It reminds me of my desire to see Tiger Woods show up to the next event in a pimp jacket, pimp cane, two women, dressed in bikinis, one under each arm, and some dude carrying a boom box behind him. Freed of his need to front a false image and embracing his true pimp self, he would CRUSH the competition. Sort of different, but, I'd love to see the LW do as you suggest. :-)

    As for memorializing your words, you didn't know that you e-signed a contract when you first started posting here?! Yes, your words are memorialized, and, too, any of your firstborn child's intellectual creations are now property of Submariner's Perspective, Inc. ;-)

    Good cheer! :-)

  11. SB1 - It occurred to me this morning that all of these letters might get a shift in the prevailing opinion with some tweaks to up the ante, as it were. I've been wondering where the tipping point might be, but have just been playing around with the letters in my head for much of the day.

    We seem to be alone on L1, but for the majority, I suppose something like this: LW1 ran for middle school president and lost because someone gave her opponent pictures of her with an extremely geeky boyfriend taken at summer camp the year before. In reading the diary, she found out that her revered mamma deliberately sabotaged her campaign and caused her great embarrassment on purpose.

    LW2 seems to have the majority squarely in her corner regarding appropriate attire. Let's suppose that, in preparation against the upcoming club championship, she were having practice sessions at an indoor tennis court after her church group meetings, and to save time, hosted the meeting wearing tennis attire. Would we have to go all the way to Venus' outfit to reach the tipping point?

    LW3 also seems to need only cosmetic change. She uses his full name instead of initials. She gives his telephone number. She gives his address. She gives his place of employment. She encourages others to cause trouble for him. Take your pick.

    Same with L4. It's a close friend. She does not have a bad work history. She's LW4's best friend. The company is legally within its rights but acting with questionable ethics. She's LW4's cousin - sister - wife.

    It just struck me as interesting that we could probably change the majority response without major structural alteration to the letters, just massaging the details (really rather like Sarah Harding's experience as a pollster in *To Play the King*). Now I just have to work out what it means, if anything.

    There might be some sort of regular exercise in this; I wonder.

  12. Ahoy there Captain! How the submarine going? Is it buzzing in a pleasing regular way or does it have hiccups?

    From my too long experience, I can tell you that the instant you die you too will turn into a saint or a god or something like that. That will be one of my last thoughts when I croak (that is if I have a last thought) --"hey I'm going to die but I'm going to suddenly be perfect. My kids will instantly forget the things I done or haven't done they hold against me." I do hope they don't spend money on a shrine though, now that would piss me off!

    You know people don't carry boom boxes anymore, right? There's those little thingies you plug in your ear to listen to, you know digital stuff (a bit disconcerting to musicians and music lovers --aren't you sometimes upset that your art is reduced to little blinks -or whatever those digital thingies are?)

    We had some sunshine yesterday and briefly early this morning. Now the clouds are coming back so it'll probably rain again.... Slugs of course love this --you know we have the biggest slugs in the country or perhaps even the world! I must live in the same area as Corey. Where does all that water come from and why can we send some of it to drought areas? (ooops I just figured out it must come from the glaciers melting in the Arctic ... I'll keep on the lookout for penguins and Polar bears falling from the sky....)

  13. Dear Diary, I hereby promise to tell the truth and only the truth so help me God. And God, if I am to die suddenly can I have a wee bit of warning so I can light my Diary on fire as I broke my promise?

    Dear Church Lady, Here, here, will the meeting come to order? Oh my, should I change my see through blouse or am I fine this way? Oh, I see you are pounding your chest but silent so I'll dash over and give you one huge Heimlich maneuver until you can speak as if you were an adult...a somewhat sane adult as it seems as if you are choking on your own fears. Oh, sorry if your chest is sore, must have been all that thumping you were doing. Another well meaning moron bites the dust as silently as they came.

    Dear Private Person, kiss that goodbye. Everyone knows...they all know...we all know...and we don't want to know more...until she describes how you were in detail.

    Dear Dumbshit...where do you work, because we all want to work for a company for 10 incompetent years...that's a good run for someone who can't do the is it that you're management and knew this all along and did nothing? Maybe you'll be going with her next month too, and she's wishing she could tell you beforehand? Seems she has longevity skills beyond her incompetence?

    Hello's a be wary of what you wish for day. We had that same lovely cool record breaking weather and yesterday it stopped, by hitting mid-80's. The news today is it is a 'ucking 92.5 in the shade at my house!!!!! Yes, Washingtonian's it's headed your way as I am in Beautiful Sunny Southern Oregon where the Morel hunting will be done with this heat arriving! And I just found a crab filled recipe for them! Sad, so sad. Even my dog is too hot today, what happened to a simple daily step up by 5 degrees each day, but no it is headed for 100 degrees in a few measly days, where's my 60 degree days.

    Phew, OK I am done ranting now.

    Happy HOT Trails everyone...;o)

  14. Ah, Smaggie, do I see a bit of thieving in your missive...I do believe I've heard "Zip It" this week on my favorite insane show of women.

    If so, I must say that had to be my all time favorite episode.

    Cheers and good health...

  15. herd"T"hinner hopes to be able to say before her connection fails:

    Kati, I still have my boombox, dammit! I don't carry it around, but it still works and can play cassette tapes and CDs, so on the shelf it stays. I suppose I could donate it or something, but these days it wouldn't surprise me if even homeless shelters will consider no less than iPods.

    Hiiidey ho, Lord Smag of Smartypants! My piggyback connection to Mom's wireless continues to be so piss-poor, I can barely get the necessities done before it all shuts down. Even this may not make it.


    LW1's mom died when she was a teenager, and I get the impression that every parent spends most of their time being pissed off and/or frustrated by their Teen Angels. Stuck in "Love you but don't Like you right now" mode. I could be wrong. One of my sisters hates Teens as a general rule, especially the male ones. I'm just quoting her here, folks!

    Unfortunately she died while still in that state of mind.

    LW2: Like "friend," I wish that she'd slut it up on purpose when Mr. and Mrs. Lust stop by, but being a church-goin', God-fearin' woman, it's likely against her nature. She could always wear one of those T-shirts with a ribcage printed on it, I suppose. Can't get more naked than that!

    Or of course stop inviting the Lustes.

    LW3: Spot on about the fact that Drama King keeps reading the damned thing. Could be one of the contributing factors that led to their breakup: his obsession with his "image" and assuming that everyone is/was talking about him. Well, I guess in her case, that's all SHE'S doing, but that will pass eventually, I suppose. Even her faithful followers will wonder if she's ever going to blog on different topics, y'know?

    LW4: I wonder if I broke tons of rules/regulations by confiding in a coworker that I was going to give notice, lo those several months ago? Different sitch, but this does make me wonder.

    As much as it kills her, she's gotta shut up. Just like it kills bosses who know when their favorites are going to be laid off, and can't say a word! It happens.

    So till next sporadic visit, I hope you all enjoyed my-*

  16. Debbie, your comments are soooooo funny!

    NOw that we're warned we're waiting for the heat with baited breath.... I alreay got my shorts out.... of course we'll complain loudly about the heat and then Ma Nature will send us rain for another 40 days....

  17. Kati...thank you...the heat made my evil twin come out but I am cured...well, right after this...

    I have just come from 24 hours of Rehabilitation and I am sorry, so sorry I swore, but now I've changed my ways, I've been to rehab and will try to be a better person. I don't know who that person was yesterday, I hardly recognize myself, my lapse in judgment, but I'm human and I will do better, when you know better, you do better.

    How'd that sound? I am trying to get the feel for the Rehabilitation speech as I think learning this may serve me well in the future, especially since I hear this more and more. It covers a huge amount of embarrassing blunder's that without this speech I'd have to crawl under a rock until people forgot and that might not be such a good (financial) plan when I have this. It's easy, and anyone can learn it. Even Sarah Ferguson. But Ted Haggard is my all time favorite. ;0)

  18. Greetings, hrumpole! Yes, I think there is something in that! A potential regular exercise, indeed! It might be fun. :-)

    I must apologize to you (and everyone) for my absence from The Lagoon and my tardiness in replying. I've been snowed under with school work. My most sincere apologies, one and all.

    Good cheer, hrumpole! :-)

  19. Ahoy, Kati! Apparently I was showing my age there a bit with the boom box reference, eh? All with the submarine is fine, thank you for asking. Just busy, busy, busy with school! :-) Please let me know if you spy any of those penguins or polar bears! Perhaps you could snap a photo or three?

    Good cheer, Kati! :-)

  20. Ahoy, Debbie! Wow, I've so missed your advice to the LW's! You are ON FIRE this week (and I'm not even talking about the 'burning the diary' part)! :-)

    As for the "Zip It" comment, no, no thievery. I haven't fired up a television in months (literally!). And, to make my popular culture intelligence (or lack thereof) even more obvious, I don't know which show you're referring to. :-( Sorry. :-(

    Anyway, that's okay, you're here to keep me straight, yes? Good cheer to you, Debbie! :-)

  21. Ahoy, T! And greetings to you via the spotty wireless connection! :-) Thank you for stopping by, even if it was a moment of sporadicity! ;-)

    I like "The Lustes". :-) Very apt, and yes, I think uninviting them might be completely proper. Holy smokes! (no pun intended)

    As for telling the co-worker, well, at this point, being as you are officially back in the land of the Giant Mouse, you're okay regardless. But, who knows? May not have been good, but, in the end, all's well that ends well, yes?

    Good cheer, T! :-)

  22. Kati, you and Debbie are *both* searingly witty, and, in concert like that, riffing off of one another! Wowsers! I hate that I missed it until just now. :-)

    Good cheer to you both! :-)

  23. Debbie, are you describing "The View?" It's one of many shows with insane women, so that's my best guess. Otherwise I'd think of Austin Powers.

    Smag the Boy 1-der, the number of times I've visited The Mouse's House in two months (as of today!) is embarassingly high.

    ...OR IS IT??

  24. Debbie, while you were in rehab did you hide that heat somewhere --you know the way they tell you to empty all the bottles of liquids and pills, etc and so perhaps you also put the heat under locks and keys somewhere you don't remember, so that now you're stuck with it and I won't ever get any of it?

    Will you please set it free and let it go north already? I had to put the heater on this morning it was down to 62 degree in the house! brrrr...

  25. Smaggie, you're fluidly funny yourself! Liquid laughter brought back from the submarine's deep. Great!

  26. Greeting's Everyone...Miss T,

    Zip It...maybe it does describe the women on "The View" I do hear about their insanity online as there's not enough coffee in the world that would draw me to turn on talking heads so early in my day. Unless there is some earth shattering news where the world stops to watch my TV is silent so I have not watched any of the morning programs, I remain happily clueless.

    But I've been drawn to watch those crazy, and I do mean crazy, Housewives...pick one either New York or New Jersey...cutting edge TV on the edge of insanity. It is high drama, very creative drama, interesting to see how humans try very hard to communicate one important piece of information but that is not what the other human hears. And to see the crazy stuff unfold I find to be enlightening, seeing a person whose brain takes bits of harmless information that it then works over into some unrecognizable harmful intent, some slanderous offence, some angry fantasy that the person is out to get them...well, it's a view of the brain that I have seen in action in my own family. Those people who sit working over a bit of some news until it is some ugly thing beyond what was intended. Seeing this unfold has been enlightening, and it's also been interesting to not only watch the rather skewed brains of some of them but to physically see the change as their minds careen out of control. Each show has one very damaged woman who is struggling to survive the group and the group it seems has done little to set them off to such a high degree.

    Self-destruction, that's the term I am looking for, I wonder how it is that they have learned this behavior, why are they their own worst enemies inside their own heads? And learning, as the other women on the show have had to...that there is no sense to be made with their thinking, one can't put it all neatly into a recognizable package that makes any sense at all and the futility of trying. Humans need to make sense of simple conversations when they become confusing and this is not something that can occur with the self-destructive person, it's as if their brain constantly skips beats, skips any bounces around towards some self fulfilling dramatic ending, then some release is had?

    These are groups of intelligent women and it took them over a year to identify this personality trait and then figure out how to deal with it, when there is no way to deal with it, it's irrational, completely irrational. The most one can do it stay away from them? I think that is my conclusion at this point. Save yourself. They will always choose to drown.

  27. Kati..I fear you maybe right about summer being very late this year! We are now again, once again back to very cool temperature's. It's overcast and cold this morning, I'm loving it in comparison to that ugly 92 degrees of Sunday. The entire Pacific Northwest is having record breaking lows for this time of year. You maybe wearing woolly tights with your shorts this summer and socks with your sandals...hey Smaggie...socks with sandals, ya lovin' that?

    Smaggie good to hear you've been busy doing your homework as I thought maybe you'd been over diving at Mermaid's deep end of the pool where the water laps the shores so gently.;o)

  28. Oh, Debbie ~ I assure you there's been plenty of lapping on Mermaid's deep end of the pool ~ and not all of it on the shores! ;)

    What's up with Kelly? Let's just get it out there girl, because you know we're both thinking it. I just hope it's prescription-related ~ that's classier than the street level I suspect is responsible.

    I, too, am simply fascinated by the dynamics in these shows. I'm not one who has a great circle of female friends. So, I enjoy them all for that little glimpse into that which I've never seen before, but I have to say that the OC is still near and dear to my heart for being my neck of the woods and an area and an archetype I'm intimately familiar with. Over the seasons, because of the economy, it has truly morphed into a very accurate reflection of the present grim situation in SoCal. We have children on that show being handed eviction notices at the front door of their rented house that they had to move into because they lost the mansion because every one of dad's construction jobs went under, and mom the real estate agent hasn't sold a house in months. Harsh!

    Weather report here oddly similar. A late summer looms, careening between 100 degrees and the mid-80s, when the sun suddenly dips behind a cloud as if someone's standing outside turning the lights on and off all day, with threats of warm lightning storms in the evenings.

    I just have one question ~ where is our Libby?

  29. Hiding in a crevasse of self-loathing brought on by some issues in the workplace. I'll be back to play soon, I hope. ;-)

  30. Crap Libby...hate it when that happens!


    Mermaid, how odd that I agree with all of your statements? I was thinking Kelly is either on drugs or completely out of progesterone. I do wonder how many of the women are out of whack hormone wise as they have odd emotional outbursts at times. I didn't realize how important having balanced hormones was until..I didn't. I can see that in Kelly, the lack of sentence structure, vocabulary...but I think it's drugs or maybe lack of the right drug? She is a good candidate for many of the whispering drug commercial's I see during the nightly news.

    And that Danielle, I think she may very well be a demented crack whore in the light of day, who knows what she is after dark but I would not wish her on anyone. She is looking rather gaunt and hollow, and her makeup artist is not doing her any favors. Wash shiny lavender eye shadow from lash line to eyebrow...not such good advice. I do believe with the show her chances of landing her next sugar daddy gets slimmer and slimmer. Interesting that her daughter has not been on the last couple of shows?
    And her new thug friends, and army of them, what the hell was she thinking? Loved the look on that Kim G's face upon inquiring why the thug would be able to drink in 6 days...ah, parole...alrighty then. LOL

    Lynn on OC, her husband gave it a good shot. I'm sure they'll bounce back in a few years once she can leave the leather jackets in the store and not use her credit card like cash, blow $1700 a night on lodging. Interesting how people choose to use their last funds and how they throw it all away. Her youngest daughter is a nightmare though. Amazing, she would have been duct taped to a post many times if she spoke to me the way she did her mother. One of the many uses of duct tape.

    I can't wait for them to do Husband's of OC, NY or that would be entertaining!

    I also am drawn into seeing inside lives I'll never come in close contact with, way too dramatic, time consuming, but perfect for TV. I don't have the tolerance for all the drama and high upkeep any of these women need to survive and feel normal. And somehow it helps for me to fully see the Kelly's and the Danielle's of the world, it completes my understanding, sort of connects some dot's for me that I don't know if I would have fully understood without the shows.

  31. Yes! Deb, it's like being able to have the sampler platter of all the most horrible types of women so you can get a good taste without having to make yourself sick from an entire meal of them!

    My assessment is ~ too much time on their hands and not enough to fill them fueled by the funds to do it, combined with the need to be, not just in the spotlight, but the focus of a crowd (for good or bad) makes for a lethal combination for some of these women.

    The episode where Danielle drove like a crazed woman with her daughters in the backseat of the car, to confront one of the sisters, until one of the daughters talked her down, should have been used as CPS evidence. Quite one thing to use your children as surrogate sex therapists and relationship advisors, but to involve them physically in your psychotic drama is something scary I hope to never see again without being able to do something about it. Those poor girls. The oldest is an absolute stunner who will shoot to the top if her mother doesn't sabotage it for her. Did you see the look of panicked horror on her face when it was suggested that Danielle accompany her daughter TO EVERY BACKSTAGE PHOTO SHOOT in Milan? Emancipation ~ STAT!

    Lynne ~ wow. Just wow. This is what happens when you act like a child whose every desire must be satisfied for her life to be worth living, and your partner caters to that to the detriment of everyone. I don't know about you (well, yeah I do :) but I'd choose a roof over me and my children's head over a facelift and botox injections, if choices were having to be made. Oddly, I found the youngest daughter to be the most redeemable of the group ~ she can see her family sinking down, see where the mistakes are being made, and she's powerless to do anything about it ~ yet forced to witness it happenening. She seems like the only sane one in a house of crazies. As for how she spoke to her mother ~ I guess my philosophy on that is ~ if a child is to the point where they feel they can speak to their parent that way, then there's something wrong with that parent-child relationship, and that relationship starts with the parent. Kids shouldn't pop off to their parents, but imho, only kids who are having a problem do that, and it's your job as a parent to figure out what it is and resolve it toot sweet. Her daughter talks to her like she's a child because the daughter feels she acts like one. Spoiled. Kids are damned smart. Parents should listen to them more.

    Kelly ~ yes! I would have said excess testosterone! I think the most uncomfortable moment for me (you know, that special moment that happens when you suddenly realize the perfectly normal-looking person you've been talking to is absolutely batshit crazy and all you want to do is keep that smile plastered on your face and back... up.... slowly...) with Kelly (and there have been plenty) was during her first "meeting" with Bethany (that Kelly invited her to) where she told Bethany she didn't like her (I'm up here and you're down here) and didn't want to talk to her EVER, and Bethany had left the bar and was waiting out on the sidewalk ~ and Kelly made a point of leaving her table at the bar to go outside and tell her again how much she didn't want to talk to her. And Bethany is calmly like, "Okay then, so stop talking to me" and Kelly grabbed her own hair and spun around and shrieked "omigod I can't stand you, you're just AAAAAAAH!" I mean, literally, I got a little scared it was so bizarre, that whole thing. I thought Kelly was going to open her mouth and swallow Bethany whole.

    Libby, we're keeping your spot in the sand warm!

  32. "Oh, Debbie ~ I assure you there's been plenty of lapping on Mermaid's deep end of the pool ~ and not all of it on the shores! ;)"

    Too much fucking information !!!

  33. Thanks Debbie!

    Thanks Mermaid! I have hopes that after this weekend thing will be looking up again. =-D

  34. Mermaid, the sampler platter! Perfect!

    I am as amazed at the same segments as you are? Had the same thoughts, identical on each point that you made. Sad for Danielle's daughter's needing to talk her down all the time from her bizarre brain malfunction's. Does she have any thoughts of actually controlling her action's? At some point in time I begin to think one must be aware of them? And their craziness? She is a horror for a parent in so, SO many ways. Did you see her this past week on the stripper pole, with her...that's how I got my last husband, suggest and stop routine? Run, men run as fast as you's not worth it! And how in another scene she moved the responsibility of her dating that 26 year old kid onto the Manzo's since they threw the party where the two of them met? Delirious! She constantly makes my mouth drop open it's so incredulous. Why does she look as if she's doing crack all of a sudden, that hollow look, I don't know about your MM but I'm watching her teeth, they may begin to jump out while she's blathering on about some thing. Oh and is she doing, as in doing her new Parole thug? He seems right up her ally?

    Kelly and testosterone...smack dab on MM, that's what she has too much of. Kelly and her running down the center lane in traffic, priceless. Why did they all look so bad during that fashion show, the bubble hair, the solemn faces, besides Ramon's bulging eyeballs and the Frankenstein walk, they all looked mad as hatter's walking the runway. I loved the reunion when Andy asked Ramona about her eyes and she calmly said something about...if that's what you want to call them! Priceless. And Jill, dear clueless Jill, she's beginning to get it, a glimmer, she's in shock that things did not go her way, she got caught on her power trip, hard for her to swallow knowing that money can't buy you friends, at least not this time. Her jealousy has done her in, and her poor clueless husband has to watch it unfold.

    It is truly a sampler platter of women I could not thrive around, and some how I learn so much on a level I can't really explain, but each time I see a show, something new pops forth. I believe that watching how Danielle by her own thinking, creates an entire world of skewed... their out to get me problems...that her perception that everything bad is coming her way and that she does then create that world for herself, that really is an eye opener for me. People can be their own worst enemies and then create a life that matches all inside their own head. I knew this firsthand but seeing it unfold in another person has been educational for lack of a better word. Seeing it so clearly in action, it's the transparency of it all, it intrigues me. My mother has that still I am sure, I used to have that oddity running through my brain years ago until I truly realized what I was creating, then I stopped, and I to this day check myself when my brain wants to work over some detail until it is unrecognizable from the original truth. I guess what troubles me about Danielle is she could at any time stop herself, but she's hooked on the drama she creates, somehow it makes her feel alive and worthy....of sympathy, guess that's the only worth she desires, sympathy? And knowing that at any time a different outlook and set of actions could have changed everything in an instant is enlightening as well. She's a pro at setting herself up for failure on the simplest of levels.

    Ah, isn't it very interesting! Until next week...